Tim Ferriss, author of the bestselling The 4-Hour Workweek, is back with the sequel. The new book, The 4-Hour Body, promises the results
of an obsessive quest, spanning more than a decade, to hack the human body … fixated on one life-changing question:
For all things physical, what are the tiniest changes that produce the biggest results?
The book is a smorgasbord of topics ranging from losing fat, adding muscle, improving sex, perfecting sleep, reversing injuries and more. Besides the meat of the book, Ferriss provides links to lots of additional bonus material.
For a general (and expert) review of 4HB, check out this from Chris Masterjohn.
For the rest of this post, I’m going to look specifically at 4HB’s Slow-Carb Diet chapter (which curiously is online at Gizmodo).
4HB’s Slow-Carb Diet
The 4HB’s slow-carb diet involves following four rules for six “slow-carb” days per week and one rule for one “cheat” day per week (bullets are my primal/paleo editorial comments):
Rule #1: Avoid “white” carbohydrates. Don’t eat bread, pasta, rice (brown or white), grains, potatoes, breaded fried food or dairy on your slow-carb days.
No big surprise here; white foods have been targeted before in various diets. In general, white foods are energy-dense and nutrient-poor, so avoiding them is an all-around good diet strategy.
Ferriss mentions grains only very briefly re the slow-carb diet (answers “no” to the question “Can I eat whole grains or steel-cut oats?”).
Dairy may be a bit of a surprise, but Ferriss advises against it because of a high insulin response to dairy despite its low GI ranking. [Ed note: this may or may not be a problem at an individual level. You may want to avoid dairy if including it stalls weight loss.]
- Grains aren’t part of a paleo/primal diet because of their anti-nutrients; dairy is included by some.
Rule #2: Eat the same few meals over and over again. Meals should include protein, legumes, and non-starchy vegetables; eat as much as you like, 3-4x/day.
Yes, it’s boring, but according to Ferriss, the diet is “intended to be effective, not fun.” Unless you really have the time and skills to cook every day, he advises to go with frozen and canned foods — at least initially — that make meal prep easier.
- Meats and veggies are definitely part of the paleo/primal diet. Because of their anti-nutrient content, legumes aren’t. Eating to satiety is paleo/primal, but given the ancestral link, there isn’t a focus on eating every so many hours (in fact, many paleo/primal folks practice intermittent fasting).
Rule #3: Don’t drink calories. Avoid milk (including soy), sweetened soda (no more than 16oz of diet), and fruit juice. One or two glasses of red wine are permitted.
- Red wine is enjoyed by some on a paleo/primal diet.
Rule #4: Don’t eat fruit. Tomatoes and avocados are okay (the latter in moderation).
Ferriss suggests avoiding fruit (especially fruit juice) on slow-carb days because of the way fructose is metabolized.
- Fruit is part of a paleo/primal diet, though limiting high-sugar fruit may be useful (Cordain, PāNu) for some.
Rule #5: Take one day off per week. Go nuts and eat lots of calories to keep your metabolic rate (thyroid function, conversion of T4 to T3, leptin) up. Do at least five days of rules 1-4 before following rule 5.
- Eating lots of non-paleo/primal foods one day a week is definitely not paleo/primal!
Other tips
The five rules above make up the bulk of the diet. However, Ferriss provides a list of mistakes people often make with the diet. They are re-written here as tips:
- eat within 30-60 minutes of waking
- get at least 20g of protein per meal, especially at breakfast
- drink sufficient water, especially on your “cheat” day
- avoid artificial sweeteners
- don’t overdo with exercise
Re supplements, Ferriss suggests potassium, magnesium, and calcium.
Re fats, Ferriss suggests eating “decent quantities of fat at each larger meal” (typically lunch and dinner). Saturated fat is fine if the meat is free of hormones and antibiotics. Otherwise, go for olive oil, butter, ghee, or macadamia oil (which has more monounsaturates and less omega 6 than olive oil).
My take
Overall, this seems like it would be a successful diet for some (many?). In general, it emphasizes nutrient-dense, lower-energy foods and avoids the foods that are likely the biggest culprits in obesity and lifestyle-related disease: refined grains, added sugars, and vegetable oils. And, aside from the semi-boredom, the ability to essentially binge one day a week and still lose weight seems to be too good to be true.
Cheat day, really? The “cheat” day concept is the biggest concern I have with the 4HB. The idea of carb/calorie cycling isn’t new and in fact is somewhat intriguing (the Cheat to Lose diet operates under a similar framework and the idea has been discussed in paleo/primal circles).
However, I think there’s a difference between trying to regulate hormones by overfeeding periodically and eating crap just because you can (Ferriss says his breakfast on his “cheat” days often includes multiple chocolate croissants and bear claws). I recall Art DeVany doing a post last year around the holidays that talked about what a bad strategy it was to binge periodically (I believe it related to nutrigenomics), but alas, can’t find the link.
Seems to me if you were going to overfeed as a regular strategy, doing so with higher quality food might work better. Or doing it only if you’re generally in good health. Binge-eating on industrial crap when you’ve got one or more of the metabolic syndrome risk factors wouldn’t be something I’d recommend strongly. But then again, perhaps it’s a relative question. Maybe eating industrial crap one day a week is better than eating it every day of the week!
All of this said, I think that if you are going to follow Ferriss’ lead re “cheat” days, then you should also follow his lead on minimizing the damage from them (see “Damage Control” and “The Glucose Switch” chapters). Exercising before breakfast may be helpful too.
Other than that? I find myself already doing rules 1-4 these days. I do like the idea of macadamia nut oil (I use olive oil for salad dressing pretty liberally) and am planning to give that a try soon.
I don’t eat legumes (though I’m thinking of adding peas back per Paul Jaminet and Melissa McEwan). Nor do I generally eat within an hour of waking up, mostly because I get up early to get to work early, so if I’m not skipping breakfast for fasting reasons, I usually eat around 2 hours after waking. I don’t see the need for changing this for now.
What I do need to change is the diet sodas. Ferriss calls himself a “total Diet Coke whore” and I can relate! Unlike him (he allows himself 16 oz/day), it’s my remaining vice and I have let myself get a bit nuts. Hello, New Year’s resolution!
Where to order. Visit Ferriss’ The 4-Hour Body website for more info and purchase links. At $14 and change for the book and $10 for the e-book, it’s well worth adding to your library.
Update, 12/14: In her sardonic review of the 4HB, Melissa makes a paleo/primal point I should have explicitly made:
“Vegetables are not calorically dense”
Um, no shit?
“so it is critical that you add legumes for caloric load.”
No, it’s critical that you add fat for caloric load. It’s clear people still get good results on his diet, but I think they would have better digestion and potentially eliminate autoimmune issues if they didn’t bother with legumes.
I give Ferriss props for recommending good fats, but it’s too bad he does so only in an off-hand way (rather than as an essential part of his diet).
I agree with Melissa. You don’t need legumes to make up for missing grains/starch calories. Paul Jaminet (whose Perfect Health Diet includes non-paleo starches like white rice) is also on the anti-legumes bandwagon, including the lentils Ferriss eats religiously.
Update, 1/28: Ferriss has posted some corrections and other comments re 4HB on his blog.
Update, 1/31: Still have a question about the 4HB diet? You may want to check out 4-HBtalk’s Subtracting Fat forum.
Update, 4/17: Hive Health Media doesn’t like the cheat day concept. That said, Martin Berkhan’s strategies for a hedonist look interesting. NB (emphasis mine): “One of the ‘secrets’ to maintaining low body fat while still being able to enjoy wild excess from time to time is therefore to make a quick turnaround in the days after.”
My takeaway? Don’t do this every week, and don’t let it drag out for multiple days in a row.
Update, 4/28 Tim Ferris talks about the 4HB diet on a Jimmy Moore podcast. Worth a listen … 4HB talk begins at about 24:30.
I’m about 1/2 way through the book, and my take on the diet was that it absolutely requires legumes. Without those as a third of the meal, it’s really just a much less satisfying version of Atkins induction.
Probably, something could be substituted for them based on glycemic index, since I gather that’s the point of the diet, but more meat would be required since legumes do have some protein.
You’re right; since the 4HB diet excludes grains and potatoes, Ferriss notes that “it is critical that you add legumes for caloric load.”
As I mentioned, the paleo/primal take on legumes is that they be avoided because of their anti-nutrient content. To make up the calories, a paleo/primal diet would either include sufficient meat, tubers or fruit, or fat.
The Weston Price folks deal with the anti-nutrient problem by using traditional preparation methods including soaking, sprouting and fermenting: http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/492-putting-the-polish-on-those-humble-beans.html
I’ve been on the “Slow Carb” diet for a little over a year and have lost about 90 lbs or so. I will admit that it’s an ongoing experiment, and I have found that a “cheat meal” can work just as much as an entire day can. However, I work out 4-6 days/week depending on my schedule, so a whole day doesn’t really hurt. However, my largest weight loss results were when I went all out.
Good luck! It’s a great diet and easy-to-do (otherwise, I wouldn’t have stuck to it).
Hi Leon, I was wondering if you could clarify what you meant by “…my largest weight loss results were when I went all out.”
Did you mean when you when all out with a cheat day as opposed to a cheat meal, or did you mean go all out with exercise?
Thanks!
The Every Other Day Diet plan (EODD) is developed by Jon Benson who claims that he can lost over 70 pounds of stubborn fat, got rid of those ugly pockets of belly fat, arm fat by eating my favorite foods each and every week!
Interesting perspective re: the legumes. I read that somewhere else too while researching the diet. But I don’t really understand the science of it all.
I do know that this is the first time I’ve been on a “diet” and not been hungry!
I tried the paleo diet before but I didn’t like that a lot of the cookbooks just had ideas for making “bread” or other substitutues for things you couldn’t have while paleo. Substitutes suck, LOL, if I’m gonna bother I want the real thing.
For someone like me who’s never been able to really stil to a diet, the idea of a cheat day is nice too - I’m looking forward to mine!
I’m on the diet now, have lost 10 lbs in 3 weeks - also working out, but I can vouch for the quality of this diet. Long live Tim Ferriss!
Tim posted an excerpt from Robb Wolf’s book on the horrors of gluten: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/09/19/paleo-diet-solution/
He offers an explanation for eating legumes:
“[Note from Tim: Many of you know that I consume some legumes and beans. Normal cooking will reduce anti-nutrients in both, but, when possible, I also soak them overnight beforehand in water with a tablespoon of baking soda. Soaking for 24 hours at room temperature has been shown to remove 66% of the trypsin (protease) inhibitor activity in mung bean, 93% in lentil (this is what I eat most often), 59% in chickpea, and 100% in broad bean. Remember also to distinguish "in vitro" (e.g. red blood cells in a petri dish) vs. "in vivo" (e.g. after normal digestion) studies.]”
Of course, the cheat day destroys the benefits of avoiding grains that Rob is arguing for.
I am reading this book now and am very excited about incorporating these concepts and seeing the results. Most I’ve read before and most make perfect sense. I am wondering, though, how a human being is supposed to intake 4700 mg’s of potassium a day. I’ve been to 3 health food stores and the largest pill dose is 200mg. This is either a typo or I’m missing something. Even the potassium enriched foods you’d need to eat seems ridiculous .
Tom, it’s actually not a typo. You can get potassium pills at higher doses, but those require an MD’s prescription. That said, while I get why he suggests it, as you can tell from the list of potassium-rich foods in the book, lots of foods have lots of potassium … it’s not a scarce nutrient compared to some (e.g. choline or magnesium).
I hadn’t realized until you commented how he implied the opposite by pointing out you’d need to eat 5 cups of lima beans or 8 cups of mushrooms to get the RDA.
Well yeah, if that’s the way you had to get your potassium! But if you looked at it instead as needing to get ~1500 mg/meal, then building a meal that provides that amount is quite a bit easier: 1 cup lentils + 1 c cooked spinach + half a fillet of halibut = 2,486 mg … more than half the RDA!
Granted, every meal might not be as high, but you’re also not limited to just one starch, one veggie, and one protein at each meal. By incorporating extra veggies (or a nice-sized salad), you are likely doing a pretty good job at getting sufficient potassium.
If you’re concerned, you could certainly take the supplements or liberally use a potassium salt (these are available in the supermarket generally labeled as “lite salt” or some such). HOWEVER, one of the reasons that higher-dose potassium supplements aren’t available is that you really, really don’t want to get too much potassium either! Getting it via food greatly limits any potential for getting too much in your diet.
All this said, since the 4HB plan has you eating beans or lentils at each meal, I’d think you’d find that you could easily ensure getting the RDA via food.
What you may want to do is use a nutritional calculator (I like the “My Tracking” tool NutritionData has) and plan out a menu to see how you’d be doing with potassium. And just for fun, you may also want to see how much you’ve been getting on your pre-4HB diet.
I started the Slow-Carb diet December 22, and have so far lost 7.5 Total Inches! Without going hungry or feeling deprived. Thanks Tim!!!
What about Insulin and GLUT4?
I would consider reading the actual book or section you’re interested in. Mr. Ferriss provides quite a good amount of scientific background (e.g. fat gain/loss related to insulin sensitivity, GLUT4) for his diet and workout plan. For example, eating a protein rich breakfast decreases water retention and increases resting metabolism by 20% for the rest of the day (page 89). So before saying that you “don’t see the need for changing this for now,” this is something worth considering.
Also, from your blog posts (this and prior) it’s not clear to me that you practice any particular method of diet or exercise (given that you are obese). I would really sit down and just choose one method and stick with it for a month. Get an Omron weight / body fat monitor and watch your progress daily. Also consider getting an insulin/glucose monitor and watch your levels throughout the day. This will give you a better idea of how and what you eat affects your insulin levels.
I am overweight also, and in the two weeks I have stuck with Mr. Ferriss’ diet, I have lost about 8 lbs of fat and gained 3 lbs of muscle (30-40 minute kettlebell and weight workouts 3x a week). I keep track of my eating and record my weight/fat lbs/muscle lbs/insulin levels religiously. This is the only way to see consistent progress. Numbers don’t lie.
Thanks for posting about Mr. Ferriss’ diet, but I would highly consider just trying it for more than a few days (along with at the very minimum, a body weight / fat monitor) and see the results before commenting on how the ““cheat” day concept is the biggest concern [you] have with.” If you track your body weight and fat along with your glucose and insulin levels, then it would make sense to determine if it’s concerning or if it isn’t.
Not sure why you think I didn’t read the book … I have! And yes, Ferriss touts a lot of research, but you need to take any research with a grain of salt.
Re the breakfast, I wasn’t saying breakfast wasn’t necessary, I was saying I wasn’t going to change my schedule to accommodate breakfast within an hour of waking … I doubt the extra half-hour to hour it takes me is a big deal. Note that as far as skipping breakfast, that’s often done by folks doing intermittent fasting, a technique Ferriss talks about later in the book.
Re sticking with one diet, well, feel free to do what works for you, but I have decades of having stuck to one diet not working for me. So I’m continually evaluating what’s out there and seeing what makes sense. And based on what I’ve read, I just don’t agree with his cheat day concept.
I know Ferriss has a lot of strategies in a couple of later chapters on minimizing the damage from cheat days, but it’s really a personal preference thing: do you really want to do all the crazy things Ferriss does to avoid damage from what you eat, or do you want stick to actually eating food that’s not damaging and that it’s okay to absorb because it’s nutrient-packed?
As I said, doing his once-a-week cheat day is probably better than eating industrial crap 7 days a week, but I just don’t think it’s ideal … certainly not at that frequency. As they say, your mileage may vary, so if it’s working for you, great!
Re my plan, what I’m currently doing is close to the 4HB less the cheat day and the legumes. It’s primal (paleo + dairy) plus some non-paleo starchy carbs; the Perfect Health Diet is a pretty close approximation.
I do have a blood glucose meter which I’ve used in the past and will use again if and when I start adding more carbs to my meals (for now, I’m averaging about 25g of starch/meal).
BTW, I’m currently doing great by the numbers (weighed weekly, blood work once a month, EKG every four months) so am happy with my current approach. But greatly appreciate the comment … best of luck to you!
Has anyone actually lost the 20-25 pounds per month that he claims?
Im down 11 lbs in 6 days..its crazy, not so hungry…maybe a litte mentally slower, haha
I’ve done the diet for 3 weeks and have lost 10 lbs. The truth speaks for itself. Ferris is on to something.
Nope! In fact I have steadily been increasing in weight by a few ounces a day over the last 4 days.
I’m cutting my breakfast in half, dropping one of the lunches and limiting calories via portion control on lunch and dinner.
And screw the cheat day. This is very similar to a diet I did a few years ago where some carbs are okay (carrots, bell peppers etc) but use portion control. I’m not really caring much bout the legumes either. I’ll eat them when it makes sense but may not eat any for a few days at a time.
And on my version of the diet I lost about 35 pounds in 3 months. That was two and a half years ago. I’ve put about 10-12 back on since then but am going back to my diet to lose that again.
I’m also doing a good exercise routine: 20-30 minutes on recumbent bike 4 days a week at about 130-150 heart rate. High resistance 1-2 of the bike rides. P90X Ab RipperX 3 times a week. Do the P90X Plyometrics warm-up routine before each workout. I do pull-ups, push-ups and curls 2 times a week.
After 30 days of this I’ll slowly add good carbs back into my diet for a week and then hit P90X full bore (did it a year ago just getting my body back into shape for it).
Paul,
How can you say it doesn’t work when you’re clearly not even following it properly?
Judging by your workout routine, I wonder if your gained weight is muscle mass?
Paul, seriously? You aren’t even CLOSE to doing ANYTHING that Ferris recommends. I’m not commenting on if what you are doing is good or bad, just that you shouldn’t imply that you are following anything in the 4 Hour Body book, because you aren’t.
lost 11 pounds in the first 6 days, but gained 4 POUNDS!!!! on cheat day. is that as insane as it sounds? i’ll let you know how long till pre cheat weight…
Sounds to me like you had one heck of a cheat day!
As far as insanity, no, it sounds to me like your body retained a whole lot of water between the carbs and sodium you probably had that day. See this for a lot more re changes in diet and water retention: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=1871
As you can tell from my blog post, I’m not really a fan of the cheat day. But if you’re gonna try this strategy, I’d recommend weighing the morning of your cheat day and then not again until the next cheat day to avoid scaring yourself with what are to-be-expected fluctuations in weight.
next week i’ll try to just eat when i’m hungry, instead of goin nuts…much of what i ate, i ate because i could, not because i wanted to..tis a learning experience it is…
1 pound under pre-cheat weight after 3 days..definitely a less intense cheat day this week
It is normal to gain back weight on Cheating Day. I usually shed that after two or three days, then it’s back to losing. What seems to be the primary purpose of the cheat day is to keep you on the diet, rather than having you live life never eating all of the things that you love. Body 4 Life did the same thing, and I have had great results on both diets, even with some insane cheat days.
Keep at it!
So far Tim’s diet has worked for me. I’ve lost 9 pounds, my wife lost 4. I’ve only been doing it for a week.
We are using the awesome recipes at http://www.4hourrecipes.com
- Jonathan
Jonathan’s only been doing it a week, yet he’s been blogging at his recipes website since before New Years. Hmmm.
His comment smacks of spam (or at the very least, trying to build Google page rank), but what the hey, I took a look … the site doesn’t seem overtly like a phishing scheme and some folks may like the recipes. Caveat emptor.
Jonathan never claimed the website was his…
No he didn’t, but the email address he used to submit the comment is the same as the one the recipes site owner published in the very first blog post on that site.
Had he just commented here saying “we tried the diet, like it, and have started a recipe site for folks” I wouldn’t have even commented. Just thought it a bit misleading that he was trying to hide his association.
I am on the plan - and I love beans thankfully - here’s one of my favorite ways to serve them - all using Tim’s ingredients:
I blend red or black beans in my food processor, add garlic and Himalayan salt for taste and then make little patties and I fry them in mac oil until crisp - great with eggs and a tomatoe on top and even a slice of avocado - I like to stack it all up. Makes me feel like I’m getting some fried food and that’s comforting. The combinations are endless!
Kale - I add this to my salads and often enjoy on it’s own - there’s a terrific recipe by Dr. Weil - I skip the cheese and croutons http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/RCP02206/Tuscan-Kale-Salad.html.
Here’s a helpful site with all high potassium foods listed - for the 4HG obviously only pay attention to the veggies ;-)
http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/nutrition/potassium.html
Good health is hard to come by - knowledge is key - and I thank you Beth for creating this site and spreading awareness for any and ALL good ways of eating.
Thanks Ginger!!
Thanks for posting about the black bean patty! I had thought about trying to make something like that to avoid having to have so many black beans in my eggs! They are a little hard to get down in the AM. I also discovered canned organic black soy beans at my health food store( made by Eden Organic). They only have about 8 carbs with 7 g fiber and 11 g protein in 1/2 cup. A pretty amazing food. I had never heard of them and I think I will replace them for the black beans a lot. They have the same look/consistency and seem to have a similar flavor.
I just started the slow carb diet a couple of days ago, too early to tell if it’s effective but it isn’t too hard to stick to so far since you feel full with the legumes and it doesn’t seem to be super strict about fat intake.
I am on day two of this diet and love love love it! Can’t wait to see my results in 30 days. I have a few Questions just to help me along:
1) I am slightly confused on weather we can mix and match foods within each category. EXAMPLE: my favorite meal would be pork with a couple eggs, pinto beans mixed with black beans, and spinach. BUT, this would be mixing two types of food within a category…Is this OK??
OR
Do I have to stick with only ONE food in EACH category?
2) I will definitely keep drinking my two glasses of Red Vino. Thank God! Any suggestions on the ounces alloted per glass?
3) I have been cooking with Ghee Butter and Olive Oil on a heating level of 7 out of 10. Is this OK or should I be cooking with grapeseed/macadamia oil since it is a higher level of heat?
PS…I really miss cooking with coconut oil :(
Only downfall thus far.
4)Lastly, I will be adding in exercise soon. Any suggestions on how often or how many times a week to do kettle bell exercises or other types of exercise? You can also send me to the part in the book where it states this info.
5)Ok, I promise this is the last one. On cheat day, should I start adding in the exercises Tim Recommends right off the bat?? And Should my first meal be a protein or can I have whatever I want?
Alright, I am Done!! I hope this posts. Thank you for any suggestions you can make for me. Cheers!!
1) You absolutely can mix foods.
2) A serving of wine is generally 5 oz.
3) Go back to cooking with coconut oil; it’s fine!
4) 4HB has an exercise chapter right after the diet, but you may also want to check out Mark Sisson as well.
5) Re the cheat day, *my* recommendation is that you avoid going totally nuts, and then the exercises aren’t so critical. But I don’t really know the answer to this (though I do know he recommends the first meal to be more like the rest of the week).
Hope this helps!
Thanks Beth!! I appreciate the tips. Have you done this before or known people to do this and it worked?
It confused me because on page 72 of the book he says mix and match from the following list, constructing each meal with ONE pick from each of the three groups.
Then below he writes, Eat as much as you would like from the above food items.
Seems a little contradictory on the wording.
I haven’t done this diet as written, and the only people I’ve known who’ve done it are the folks who’ve commented here. Given the restrictions on the non-cheat days, I suspect that it’s very likely that it will work for lots of people unless they undo all the good they did on their cheat days. What I’m doing is more like the non-cheat days all the time, and I substitute rice or tubers for the beans/legumes. I’m doing well on that approach.
Ferriss doesn’t say so, but I think that people with lots to lose should be more careful on cheat days. One of the reasons for doing these periodic over-feeds is to raise leptin … people with lots of weight left to lose typically don’t need to raise leptin. So if it were me, I’d advise those folks to simply treat their cheat days as a day to include foods that they can’t eat on the non-cheat days, and not so much to eat the way Ferriss currently does (e.g., the two bear claws and two chocolate croissants for breakfast). Used that way, I could imagine that having a regular cheat day would make tolerating the boring non-cheat days much easier!
Re the mix and max, I think what he means is that he wants you to make sure each meal includes some protein, some beans, and some veggies (as opposed to only eating meat and veggies or only meat and beans).
I’m concerned folks - Love the regualr parts of the diet and I know I need a little cheat day in my week so the binge day allows some freedom. But after reading Tim’s suggestion that you must have a spike in calories I have adhered quite closely.
4950 caloires my first binge day and 4564 my second..consisting of chiciken taragon salad sandwich, 3 double cheeseburgers, a jr whopper with cheese, chicken sandwhich, jimmy johns bootlegger club, slice of chicken cheese pizza, cookies, 2 sodas, and some mm’s to finish the day off.
Now here I’ve lost about 8 pounds from my highs but I DON’T WANT TO EVEN EAT LIKE THIS ON BINGE DAY….can’t a bigger then average day do?
Please b4 I have a heart attack - someone give me some in put. Average 2100 caloires during my normal adherence to Tim’s strict high protein, high legume, low carb diet.
And both binge days were forced…I would hae much rather had one cheeseburger, matybe a chocolate treat, slice of pizza and maybe a snack towrads the end of the day. I’m not even that hungry for these foods here…but the diet specificly on one page says “yes, you must have a coloric spike…”
What to do….?
T
Todd, you may want to ask your question over at 4-HBtalk … there are a lot more folks reading and discussing the book there, so you’ll get far more responses from folks actually doing the diet than you will here.
That said, I have two comments. First, it’s just my relatively uneducated lay opinion, but I do not think anyone should take the 4HB’s diet as written in stone (that probably holds true of any diet book!). As others have noted, Ferriss is often short on specifics — either in terms of the diet itself or the rationale behind it. And he’s not at all specific re the cheat day. For one, I don’t know that I would interpret “dramatically spiking caloric intake” as more than doubling my calories. In addition, as I mentioned in my post, it is not at all clear (to me anyways) that it is required or actually healthy to make this calorie spike full of junk calories!
Second, I don’t understand the science behind carb cycling well enough to definitively say whether or not the cheat day is good, bad, or indifferent, but I do believe that it is a not-widely-accepted theory that is intriguing. I think if you search calorie cycling and metabolism you can find some interesting reads that have a lot more details (like this, which suggests that a 24-hr refeed probably isn’t long enough to create the metabolic changes Ferriss states).
I don’t follow the 4HB diet. If I did, what I’d probably do is something along the lines of eating more food and eating those foods I didn’t eat on the other days of the diet. Whether or not this had a great effect on leptin or thyroid is questionable, but what it might do is enable you to do the non-cheat days for life, which is what it’s all about … making a lifetime change to keep the weight off, not go on yet another diet where the weight loss comes back after the diet is over!
Hi, Beth,
Interesting discussion. I don’t know that Ferriss is trying to go for a real calorie cycling effect like the one discussed on your links. But one of those linked pages mentions other benefits of brief refeeds or cheat days:
“Now, this isn’t to say that short carb-loads/refeeds aren’t of benefit. They refill glycogen, turn off catabolism and maybe induce an anabolic response to boot. They also let you eat some of the crap you’re really craving which helps psychologically.”
Basically, I think the key thing that Ferriss mentioned is the “turn off catabolism”. Basically, spike insulin levels to get the dieter out of starvation mode. It may not be “optimal” compared to a stricter calorie cycling schedule, but it has its benefits and it’s much easier to follow than calorie cycling. And often the best diet is the one you stick to.
Good luck to you!
Yes, it’s hard to gauge exactly what Ferriss has in mind (not exactly sure that “I make myself a little sick each Saturday and don’t want to look at junk for the rest of the week” is as sound as some might like!).
Totally with you that the best diet is the one you stick to, and as I said, perhaps one day of industrial crap is better than seven. But it’s hardly ideal!
Heyy everyone…been on the diet for 1week i think im doing ok but the beans are killing me!! Ive tried to like them but its not happening no matter what way there served…is this going to slow down my progress?!
Kachelle, Ferriss wants you eating beans primarily for the calories. Paleo folks would omit the beans and just increase healthy fats. You may want to experiment. If you really dislike beans (and lentils) but don’t want to go all paleo, then you may want to try substituting a different starch, maybe potatoes or rice.
What healthy fats would be good to have with each meal to replace the beans? Also if i go with potatoes and or rice would that would only be a small amount with one meal right not b-fast lunch and dinner?
I just started this and am a little confused….I understand the concept but I can’t get my head around how much to eat. Is it in 1/3 protein, veges, beans? More beans and protein? I dont mind the beans so it doesn’t bother me - but I dont want to undereat or overeat because I dont know. I have the book and understand the amount of proteins that is asked for - can someone help? I am also starting an every other day work out - no more than 45 mins - which I think is minimul. Eat as much as you want scares me that I may eat too much….
Stefni, Ferriss doesn’t say much about portion sizes. I think that a good ballpark would be to take your plate, divide it by four, and have half be veggies, and then 1/4th each protein and beans (plus a little bit of the healthy fats he mentions … see the spices/cooking section in the “finer points and common questions” chapter).
Re the eat as much as you want, it it were me, I’d avoid going nuts on your cheat day. I’d use it as a day to eat the foods you’re not eating the other 6 days of the week. Don’t worry too much about calories, but don’t really treat it as an excuse to go all Thanksgiving stuffing-like once a week!
However, I’m not doing the diet, and there’s not a lot of folks sticking around here commenting about their experiences. I’d definitely recommend checking out 4-HBtalk’s Subtracting Fat forum … there are lots of folks actually doing the diet there and they may have good advice for you! Best of luck.
Beth - thank you. I am not so concerned about cheat day then how much I am eating on regular days though….can you eat too much protein and beans on this? Just didnt know?
Stefni, from what I’ve read, it’s hard to overeat protein (we seem to have a limit on how much we have an appetite for … I’ve seen estimates of somewhere around 25-30% of daily calories).
For a similar reason, I think you’d find it hard to eat too many beans … lots of fiber in those!
But if you’re concerned, you may want to initially measure what you’re eating and plug it into a food calculator like NutritionData or SparkPeople. The idea behind the 4HB diet is that by eating this way, you tend to automatically reduce calories since they aren’t empty calories.
But it’s not magic … if you’re a smaller woman (or more sedentary and/or older), you could be eating enough calories on 4HB to maintain your weight rather than lose.
I just started the Slow-Carb Diet yesterday. I am a little concerned about the Potassium though.
I had blood work done a few weeks ago. My blood test results came back with “elevated levels of Potassium”. The nurse suggested that “in a lot of young men, we’re seeing elevated levels of Potassium due to an increase in protein consumption, particularly in protein shakes.” It taxes the kidneys. I’ve read information either way: One source says protein taxes the kidneys, the other source says it doesn’t. But the nurse’s explaination made sense. It made sense to me because I was drinking 32g of whey protein each day, and I know whey protein goes directly to your muscles, or so the hype says. I was also eating protein bars. I think I was only getting 80g on workout days and maybe 60 on normal days, but I recieved it all at once.
I know Ferriss suggested Potassium supplement for this diet (of course I don’t need to supplement Potassium at this point!). What I’m worried about is the AMOUNT of Potassium in this diet. Of course I will be choosing lower Potassium vegetables, and TRY to stick with lower Potassium legumes - but it seems legumes are loaded with Potassium!
I’m finding VERY contradcitory information on what foods contain what amount of Potassium. In fact, even the RDA for Potassium is different depending on where you look!
If anyone has any more information, please email me [email protected] or comment on my blog. Thank you very much!
Hi,
I like your analysis of the 4 hour body diet , I was perusing the comments On Tim’s blog and searching for anyone who might have an issue with the diet soda. I noticed you have a “minor” weakness for them as well. My question though is “Does anyone else, besides myself, think that there may be some dangerous side effects to diet “anything”. the chemical Aspartame is the primary sweetener in most of these, Heck they even put it in most gum these days.
A simple search reveals all sorts of negative complications indicting Aspartame. What do you think?
To those just starting out.. Let me give you a bit to think about when approaching a “cheat day”.
Don’t use it as an opportunity to eat a whole pizza by yourself along with 2 trips to the buffet and a 30oz milkshake.
You can have pizza, buffet, milkshake but eat like a normal human being. I see a whole lot of people (including myself) freaking out over a gain of 5-10lbs after their cheat day and this is likely why.
Remember that we are changing our diet AND lifestyle and if you live for that day when you can “eat like an obese person” then you aren’t doing too well in the lifestyle department (present company included).
I’m new to the slow carb diet so I can’t speak from much experience but I just lost 30lbs on a mostly RAW diet and caught myself going overboard on cheat day. I’m up 6lbs (which I’ll probably lose) but things would be a lot easier if I would have only gained 2lbs and I can’t say I felt extremely good after my first cheat day since I stuffed myself with crap.
Just be mature when treating yourself, that’s all I’m saying.
Good advice regarding a “cheat day” Jon. The 4HB diet allows you to eat whatever you want on your cheat day, but one should use common sense with regard to portion size.
great post beth. Like Tim Ferris I too like to experiment. Eating breakfast sooner, cutting out (or for me down) the fruit, skipping even brown carbs (sweet potatoes, squash) are adjustments. There is so much information, I found myself taking notes. The cheat day is an iffy proposition for many. More than anything, TF ignores emotional implications of eating completely. For some binging will make them binge more or crave certain foods.
“As I mentioned, the paleo/primal take on legumes is that they be avoided because of their anti-nutrient content. To make up the calories, a paleo/primal diet would either include sufficient meat, tubers or fruit, or fat.”
Yeah. On the surface, Paleo dieters are correct when they say “legumes contain some anti-nutrients”. However what they fail to consider is that these anti-nutrients are largely destroyed in processing (read: canning or cooking). You can also soak the beans to leach out anti-nutrient content.
This reminds me of how raw-foodists used to say “Cooking food destroys the minerals!” No, fools! Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Cooking food does not destroy the minerals. Some of the minerals may leach out into the cooking medium (such as water if you’re boiling them), but these minerals are not “destroyed”.
Gavin, some anti-nutrients are definitely removed or minimized by appropriate cooking methods. Phytic acid is one of those that can be reduced via soaking or sprouting. So definitely, if you’re going to eat grains & legumes, using traditional methods to prepare is wise.
But paleo folks typically avoid legumes because cooking doesn’t neutralize all anti-nutrients.
Me, I’d much rather see people eating properly prepared whole grains than some fake diet food … on this point, I’m with Darya Pino.
I am just starting this diet and am encouraged by the results I am seeing here (some of the book reviews on amazon scared me). I was wondering, is it Vital that the cheat day be the same exact day every week, or just that there is one per week. Obviously I wouldn’t have a cheat day on Sunday and then another on Monday, but lets say I did it Friday one week, then Thursday the next week, then Sat the following week, would that be OK or does it really need to be the same exact day to be effective?
Thanks!
Harrison, you may want to take your question to the 4HB’s Subtracting Fat forum — there are a lot more folks doing the diet there. But I don’t think it’s essential that it be the same exact day every week. You probably want to make sure there are at least 5 days between cheat days (remember, he says not to do the first cheat day until you’ve done the diet for 5 days).
I am all for trying new “diets” as many of my clients always have questions about them. I am my own guinea pig. I have been trying this diet for a week (today is my day off and I find myself not really craving sweets…although I did enjoy a home-made banana nut muffin for bfast!)
Starting Stats: 149lbs, 19% bf
at One-week: 146lbs, 19%bf
Looks like I just lost water weight but then again I did not work out as hard as I usually do, only two days a week this week. The best part of the diet for me is it was easy to follow except the bfast part since I get up at 530am most of the week and don’t feel like eating beans and egg whites. I will stick with it and add the supplements this week.
All,
HAve been on the 4h diet for 4 weeks and have lost about 11 pounds, though I am surprised at how wildly my weight has swung to get to this. I have just dipped below 200 pounds this last week, and consistently stayed below all week long. After my binge day, (and I binge hard), I stayed at 197. I think what is critical for this or any other diet is the daily physical workout one must conduct. I walk (20 lb weight vest) 2 - 5 miles a day, 5 days a week if possible. It is critical to the formula for of burning more calories then you take in. I am also considering a fast day on the weekly cycle as well, just not sure at what point in the week to introduce. THoughts are welcome
I’ve only been on the 4HB diet for one week and I have lost 5.25″ total inches and six pounds. I gained three pounds after my cheat day, but am crossing my fingers that by following the diet EXACTLY over the next six days that I’ll lose those three pounds in addition to losing even more weight.
I am following the diet exactly as written and it’s been fairly easy for me so far. I’m not a big fan of drinking a lot of water, but have been forcing myself to drink two full glasses with each meal as recommended.
My goal is to lose 24 pounds in eight weeks. Wish me luck!
Watch the binge days. They are awesome rewards but certainly after a few weeks, you realize even a minimalist approach to the cheats is going to help you in the long run achieve your goals. And if you do binge hard, then do something on that day to equal it out. Binge on exercising as well.
8 weeks and down 17 lbs. 10 more lbs to go..
looking forward to diving into your blog
-Ren
For me, adding the legumes made all the difference. I had lost weight on Atkins, but didn’t FEEL so good after a couple weeks. Adding beans to each meal, as Tim advises, made it possible for me to stick to it and feel great. So I’ll keep doing that.
I also did the cheat day, not going CRAZY all day, but eating some things I love “off the diet” on Saturday. Still lost weight.
I love this guy!
Can somebody tell me if it’s OK to have corn????
Thanks!
Billie, you may want to ask your question over at the 4HB’s Subtracting Fat forum, there are a lot more folks doing the diet there.
That said, from what I can tell, the 4HB doesn’t permit whole grains on the diet days, so no, it’s not okay to have corn (unless it is one of your 4HB cheat days).
Tough time following Slow Carb coz of eating out and travel (for instance I could get find only wheat rotis(Indian breads) and potatoes at various lonely Uttarakhand highway joints on this Monday’s trip) I have followed strictly followed the diet for only two weeks in the last 7 weeks.
If I majorly stray off for a day or more it should I calculate my ‘Cheat Day’ as occurring six days later (i.e. Sunday) instead of Saturday or should I skip the cheat day and wait for the next week’s cheat day? In one case, during my travelling I had to cheat for 4 days. Does that mean I should have skipped 4 cheat days thereafter?
Opinions and experiences please!
My take on this is that the “cheat” day is a tool to help keep you compliant the other six days. So if you’ve been traveling and been cheating during the week, you probably wouldn’t do a cheat day for that week.
But it’s not additive. If you’re back from travel and compliant for a week, then you’d have your cheat day that next week.
However, your best bet is probably to ask over at 4-HBtalk’s Subtracting Fat forum, where there are a lot of folks who are actually doing the diet and can give you better advice.
In the middle of my second week and slightly disappointed.
I lost 4lbs the first week,had my cheat day…and went up 3,have only dropped 2.5 of those. And now im 2 days from next cheat day.Im following this thing strictly(diet coke which is an addiction I cut to 16 ounces,hardest thing). Lentils every meal. Sadly I think in inches just a bit off my waist. My period should start any day now and cant decide if thats why im not showing any loss this week. I made the commitment to give it a month,since he says for women it can take that long. I had better results with Dukan diet so far,but found it harder to stay on. But this is not a easy/or fun way to eat with no results(even little ones). I only want to lose 12lbs. Did any other lady out there get stuck with weight back after cheat day due to period bloat? Should I keep on? Confused and so sick of eggs.
Janice, don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but do check out the 4HBtalk forum … there’s a lot more folks actually doing the diet there who can help.
My two cents is that you need to cut yourself some slack. The closer you are to goal, the harder it will be. And some (a lot?) of your weight fluctuation is all related to water weight changes.
Finally, given how close you are, I think you’d be wise to help with some exercise. Not a lot, but if I were you, I’d consider doing some high intensity interval training (e.g., wind sprints).
Thanks. I have checked out and still do that forum,Just a bit inhibited by all the body measurement,fat percentage stuff. I just have a scale,a tape measure and the underwear pics on the fridge.
I want to try the kettlebell program but need to find someone to teach me,make sure im doing it right.
I will stick it out thru this week I guess still slightly plump and hoping cheat day dosent put me over my starting weight.
Thanks! I will try to relax about it. I have gone over to the forum,but find myself inhibited by all the serious work out people and body fat measuring. I have only my scale(it does tell my body fat,but prob not accurately),scary underwear pics on the fridge and tape measure. I will stick it out till june. Just hoping this coming cheat day dosent just add on more lbs.
Well, it’s not going to add “pounds” unless your cheat day is really truly frightening! But if it were me, I would treat the cheat day less as an opportunity to eat lots, and more of an opportunity to add things in that you don’t eat on the other days.
The other thing you may want to do is use a tool like SparkPeople to see where you are with calories. Since you’re so close to goal, it’s conceivable that what you’re eating is more like maintenance calories. If that’s the case, then I definitely think adding in the exercise (lots of walking plus some high intensity stuff). Kettlebells rock, but yeah, get a good DVD or someone to show you good form! Good luck!
Just wanted to share something interesting. With reference to all the discussion on cheat days here’s an instructive piece of info from Tim Ferris from his forum:-
“Tim Ferriss
May 9th, 2011
12:43 am
Hi Vickie,
It’s possible to do “cheat” day by just eating more of your usual foods, or by consuming yams, sweet potatoes, quinoa, etc. instead of junk food or processed food. I suggest trying that.
Best of luck and thank you for the kind comment!
Tim”
I found the “eating more of your usual foods” bit quite interesting since I have found myself more energetic and feeling healthier whenever I’m compliant with the diet. Last week I skipped eating junk because I was not being compliant with the diet based on the advice received from you on this forum , and my body felt good(Thanks for that). Today I had my cheat day and I was feeling lethargic, moody, and had an upset tummy and a headache, and my taste buds with the junk food weren’t feeling thrilled no matter I tried. From next food, I’m gonna try eating more of my regular food (veggies and meat) for cheat day.
Its so different for me, course tomorrow will be only my second cheat day. But i dont get any headaches,feel dizzy or sick at all. Nor do i feel any better on the diet days. Maybe my cheat days are not really big enough binges? I dont think just adding more of the same food would work for me…the whole point was to eat chocolate or cookies. So farIm not all hungry on my regular days so just adding more food wouldnt make sense.
my cheat days are
1 oatmeal rasin cookie for breakfast..
diet coke.
2 slices thin crust cheese pizza
a wedge salad with the blue cheese dressing and sourdough bread/butter
milkduds for dessert
that was it..i didnt feel ill in anyway. in fact it was heaven.
now tomorrow is cheat day 2, scared i wont go down.
Janice, according to Ferriss, the point of the cheat day is to eat more calories than you need in order to keep your thyroid etc from slowing down your metabolism, so eating to hunger isn’t the point. The cheat day also has the benefit of enabling folks to tolerate the non-cheat days over the longer term.
That said, I’m with Shahnawaz. It’s one thing to use your cheat day for a special occasion or to include foods you really miss from the other days. But I think if you plugged the foods you ate into SparkPeople or other food tracker, you’d find you’re both short on calories and nutrition. Neither is good!
Understood.. and thanks,so i will eat more tomorrow..but milk duds are staying . One day a week i dont think will kill me if the nutrition isnt there. and no eggs on sunday. I ll indulge in pasta,etc to amp the calories. truth be told im fairly healthy , I just want to look better in my jeans.
I’m a big believer in the 80/20 rule, so I absolutely think it’s fine to keep the milk duds if they’re a fave! Since you’re close to your goal, you might also want to consider intermittent fasting to budge that last 10 lbs. But I would try to avoid short-changing the nutrition whatever you do!
I’ve been on the slow carb diet for just over 3 months now, and I’m down over 40 lbs. - I’ve had great success thus far and will continue till I hit my goal weight. - For those who have expressed confusion as to which foods/drinks can be had on this diet, I’ve used the slow carb reference which can be found at: http://www.eslowcarbdiet.com - Wishing everybody luck! & Don’t give up - it really does work!
I’ve been on it for about 6 weeks now, not following it 100% as I’ve been known to have a bit of dark chocolate outside my cheat day. I tend to average 3-5 pounds per week, and am now under 200 lbs for the first time in years. I never cheat that hard in cheat day, no soda still (outside 1 diet redbull 8oz a day) and might have some pasta during the day, and maybe meat and a potato product for lunch on those days.
I also walk 2-5 miles a day and do some (minor) lifting, barbells ect. Right now my energy is just insane most days compared to feeling like crud every night.
Hi, I just started this diet, I have one question regarding beans, I don’t mind them, if I’m at a restaurant where I can have a grilled spniach salad but not beans what I can I eat intead of beans, can I just go without them? can I have a handfull of peanuts or almonds instead of beans?
Thank you
Mary
Mary, the beans are meant to provide a source of slow carbs. Aside from lentils, there are no good official direct substitutes since the 4HB diet doesn’t permit grains or potatoes. Nuts don’t really provide much in the way of carbs, so the best bet would be to just go without. Just make sure you have a good serving of protein with your salad (if it’s not included).